Alix (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
zodiacal_light) wrote2010-12-01 04:42 am
zodiacal_light) wrote2010-12-01 04:42 am
Entry tags:
On Roger and Roald, and the crown of Tortall.
Roger should have inherited the crown of Tortall.
All this hinges on one thing: that we accept the information Ms. Pierce provides in interviews.
We have three important bits of info.
Roger was 15 when Jon was born.
Roald was 31 when Jon was born.
Ergo, Roald was about 16 when Roger was born.
Roger's father pretty much had to be a Conté. Let us assume, and it is an assumption, that Roger was not a bastard.
Further, judging by the text, people in Tortall - the nobles, anyway, and especially the men - do not marry young.
Therefore, Roger's father had to be older than Roald.
Here is where the third bit comes in:
When talking about succession after Jon, we are told explicitly that the crown would pass from Jon, to Roald, to Lianokami, and only after that would it go to Liam.
Now, we have to make one assumption here: that while Jon and Thayet pushed through laws that enabled the crown to pass to women, they did not fundamentally alter the pattern of Tortallan succession. To do so would have been a much greater change, and one much less likely to pass. Also, given that this happens before the princes and princesses are born, there is no way to know how many children Jon would have, and certainly Lianokami wasn't born yet, so therefore there was no reason to alter the succession to favor Jon's first grandchild over his second child.
Walk that back a bit, and put the two bits together: Roger's father would have been Jasson's heir before Roald. Tortallan succession would privilege Roger - the child of Jasson's heir - over Roald - Jasson's younger son.
Therefore, Roger was the legitimate heir of the Tortallan crown.
There are, of course, ways around this. But that requires work.
All this hinges on one thing: that we accept the information Ms. Pierce provides in interviews.
We have three important bits of info.
Roger was 15 when Jon was born.
Roald was 31 when Jon was born.
Ergo, Roald was about 16 when Roger was born.
Roger's father pretty much had to be a Conté. Let us assume, and it is an assumption, that Roger was not a bastard.
Further, judging by the text, people in Tortall - the nobles, anyway, and especially the men - do not marry young.
Therefore, Roger's father had to be older than Roald.
Here is where the third bit comes in:
When talking about succession after Jon, we are told explicitly that the crown would pass from Jon, to Roald, to Lianokami, and only after that would it go to Liam.
Now, we have to make one assumption here: that while Jon and Thayet pushed through laws that enabled the crown to pass to women, they did not fundamentally alter the pattern of Tortallan succession. To do so would have been a much greater change, and one much less likely to pass. Also, given that this happens before the princes and princesses are born, there is no way to know how many children Jon would have, and certainly Lianokami wasn't born yet, so therefore there was no reason to alter the succession to favor Jon's first grandchild over his second child.
Walk that back a bit, and put the two bits together: Roger's father would have been Jasson's heir before Roald. Tortallan succession would privilege Roger - the child of Jasson's heir - over Roald - Jasson's younger son.
Therefore, Roger was the legitimate heir of the Tortallan crown.
There are, of course, ways around this. But that requires work.
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(The king's brother being a playboy and knocking up a noblewoman while still a squire is fun to play with, too.)
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(I admit, I'm sort of a fan of the idea that Roger's dad was a playboy... :P)
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Another idea? King Jasson took Roger's dad out of the line of succession because he did something to *really* piss him off. And maybe it got him killed...
Or Roger's dad abdicated, and abdicated in the name of his underage son as well. (That's what the tsar of Russia did during the first revolution - he abdicated for himself and the tsarevich, and they went to his younger brother next.)
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There's also a possibility that if Roger's dad died before Jasson did, and Roger was still too young to rule, Tortallan succession would bump it to Roald - and not necessarily as a regency. I've also been toying with the idea that Jasson died while Roger was off in Carthak or otherwise unable to be reached, and circumstances necessitated that Roald be crowned, and some manner of legal stipulation or wrangling on the part of the nobles prevents Roger from challenging that coronation.
I'm really excited over all of this because for the longest time, I have had a devil of a time getting a handle on Roger. He's so over-the-top as a villain that while I love to read him, I can't get a handle on his character as a person. All of this opens up all kinds of tasty possibilities for why he's so doggedly antagonistic in SotL.
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Oh, I'm completely with you on that. When I did my ginormous timeline, I threw the footnotes not to say "look where she messed up!" but to explain things that weren't making sense. It's one of my favorite things to do. ^__^
I'm really excited over all of this because for the longest time, I have had a devil of a time getting a handle on Roger. He's so over-the-top as a villain that while I love to read him, I can't get a handle on his character as a person.
I'm so with you on that!! A lot of people love Roger, and I just can't wrap my head around him. This has given me so many little ideas that will quite possibily slip into my head-canon. (thank you!!)
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Yeah, one of my favorite things to do is find (usually cracky, this being me) explanations for errors and problems - not just with Pierce fandom, either. :P
Speaking of, maybe Roger was just too fabulous for the crown. It wouldn't match his Image, you know?
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I love crack explanations for errors! Rosie and I were once contemplating doing an entire series of ridiculous error-explanations.
The crown really doesn't match his wizarding rod. (wow, that sounds pervy...)
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That would be epic.
It's just the right amount of pervy, which means it must be right!
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I really like the idea of Jasson finding some weird way to edge Roger out of the succession because he didn't like him.
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Actually, illegitimacy wasn't part of my though process. I was thinking that as a squire he got a noblewoman pregnant and had to marry her (at a very young age).
I really like the idea of Jasson finding some weird way to edge Roger out of the succession because he didn't like him.
This my preferred approach, as well. :)
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